Category: Daily Living
Hello,
Don't know which board this belongs on, but it affects daily life ... so here it is.
Have any of you made a case to your city for an audio walk signal in a particular area?
On the street corner outside our cul-de-sac, there is an intersection where one of the streets basically doesn't go through. That means when you're crossing the other one, no parallel traffic. Given the nature of the streets there and the traffic / turn lanes, to me it looks like it needs an audio signal to be crossed effectively.
I am as reticent to do anything political as some of you all should be to edit your registry or take your computer apart.
But here is my plan thus far: Find out how much one of these things cost, so I know what I'm asking the city for. Then make my case in writing, to whomever I need to.
However, I've never done this before, and I know this is the sort of thing, at least when I was on college campuses, that certain protester groups oppose. As far as I'm aware, I'm the only blind person in this area right now, but that doesn't mean there wouldn't be more. I don't know how to acquire the necessary demographic data for this.
Basically I'm floundering to be honest. What department would I go to for something like this? It is a city street and not a county road or state highway, so presumably someplace in City Hall.
Is this something that can be accomplished in writing? I'm not exactly a talking points kinda guy, never did the debate team thing.
I certainly can Google audio walk signals, but do any of you all know how much we're talking about here? I assume I'd need to know what the financial investment I'm asking them, well in fact us, as I indirectly pay property taxes here via rent.
Also are there more than just the blind that benefit from these things? The blind population is pretty sparse, so I don't know how ready or willing they would be to do something for just us.
If you have done this before, and made a case to a department in writing, may I see it? Aside from patent law, which was never my favorite thing anyway, I have no experience in anything like this, and would really hate to screw it up.
And for those, if there are any, that get their shorts in a knot over audio walk signals, I reiterate: this particular street doesn't go through, meaning you never get parallel traffic. Lots of turn lanes are just fine, as you go with the traffic closest to you, but no parallel plus an island at a slight angle equals potential problems. I consider myself a decent traveller and have done so in cities I haven't been to before like most of you all on here, but a heavily trafficked street crossing with no parallel traffic and only turns I would think even the most avid opponents of these audio signals would support.
And on that note, if you have gone ahead with one of these, how did you manage the protester population, if there was one? I have to say I am seriously a fish out of water when it comes to this sort of thing, the comparison to some of you editting the registry, debugging a program, or taking your computer apart is not an exaggeration.
Many thanks for any and all responses, as I'll be living here until my daughter's out of high school at least, and that's another three years.
Having lived in a small town where these things are very uncommon, I know where you're coming from. I actually did have some luck submitting a suggestion in writing. I would definitely give it a try.
I've never done anything like this either, though I'm very good at writing essays and pursuasive pieces. The fact that this is actually a dangerous street to cross without sighted assistance should be of help in your argument. audio signals might also help the elderly, who may not be able to see as clearly as they did when they were young. I have no idea why anyone would be against these things. I've always wanted to use one and have never come across any. That said, there is a very busy and dangerous street in my town. It's actually part of a highway, and even my mobility instructor said I'd need asistance if I ever wanted to cross it. so yeah, I'd definitely go for it. Use the angle of helping future citizens as well. as for the cost of implementation, I'd look it up on Google and try to be state specific. It might cost one thing in one state and another in another. It's also good to get an idea of your state's and/or city's budget so that you can include knowledge of it in your argument. the more facts you have the more convincing your request will be. I'd suggest asking a blind organisation for help. Personally, I'd avoid the NFB, since they're even against changing currency, which would be beneficial to many people aside from the blind. perhaps, the ACB or even a smaller group could be of assistance. Best of luck to you and let us know how it goes. if you're stuck on writing, pm me and I'll see what I can do.
OceanDream, so you got this done once? How much did it cost your city?
Also, what are they used to looking at, in writing? Is there a name for this sort of document I can Google so they don't throw me out on the basis of form?
I'd love to see one, or something similar, so I can draft my piece in the same model. I know with governments they tend to want every i dotted and every t crossed. I hope to find a way to make a case for this without drawing too much attention or getting political.
The comment about elderly folk is certainly one to consider, as they are one of the groups whose support has more sex appeal, as it were, for the masses. At least far more than us.
Is there some certifying authority that I should get to sign it?
Thanks for your help
Sorry, Robozork. My mobility teacher wrote the suggestion, with the help of my mom. I was very young at the time, just old enough to where I was allowed to walk places on my own. I do know that they also submitted their suggestion to the papers. The only thing I can suggest is to be very polite and respectful. The next time I speak to my mom, I'll ask her if she remembers what all they did to write it. Stay tuned...
Well naturally that, as I'm not exactly the protester type, but would like to find out how much they would have to shell out for one of these things, before trying to make a case with them. Did some Google searches and came up empty. Weird.
Interesting responses or lack of. So though I might Google, I find no recorded instances of this being done, and no cost estimates to the city who would have to enact this.
Not even a draft of design for what it takes to install one.
I shall of course proceed as best I can, but won't be approaching them uninformed as I wouldn't blame them for not taking me seriously if I did. We'll see how this board goes, but apparently this isn't done that often.
ok robo
the reason for the lack of responses is that each state and/or municipality probably has a different set of flaming hoops through which you will have to jump. Although I have never had to do this, my husband has. I can pass on what he did. If he has anything to add, I'll let you know later.
In my county every jurisdiction has a trafic engineer to whom the request must be submitted in writing with a justification. Your town may not have an official with that job as his only responsibility, but you would want to start with the public works or roads department.
As these things go, I don't believe that the walk signals are that prohibitively expensive. The price depends on if you want a push button, which works only when you want it too, one with beeps only, one with voice and beeps, etc. etc. etc. It may be able to be procured with stimulus funds or state federal money as it is aada compliance issue.
Is the intersection in question controlled by a trafic light already? If so, then putting in the walk signal wouldn't be that big a deal.
If not, then a whole other kettle of fish is hung over the fire. Meetings will have to be held with your community and opinions heard and it may have to be voted on.
I don't want to be discouraging. In my area, we've needed a trafic light at an intersection with a four way stop for 23 years. The businesses don't like it. The environmentalists are outraged. The neighborhood doesn't like it. Just last election the darn thing finally passed and they are now installing it.
If there already is a light, here's what happened for us. After the request is submitted, a study is usually done. The traffic flow is monitored and then, a determination is made. This all happened 10 years ago, and my husband lost. Just recently theyinstalled a beeping signal near to where his request was and lengthened the light.
If you have any questions, please let me know. Good luck.
This is all good information and thanks.
Fortunately, there is a light already in place and I don't care what signal they put in, personally; less frills probably better than asking for the works. There is no button there now, so I should think that the request for a button would be unnecessary - those are probably more than just a switch, but a timer interrupt / reset if there is a timer, or would interfere with the sensors if the streets are sensored as many are out here now.
Anyway what you supplied is comprehensive enough for me to begin looking into this, so when I draft a letter I have some idea what's going on here. I suppose I should probably try and see if any local blind organizations have already attempted it.
Thanks again.
always a pleasure. please keep us informed as to your efforts and the outcome.
Very good points, Turricane. Thanks for sharing.
I actually tried to get a signal put in near my folks' place in Portland, Oregon about ten years ago. The particular area was unquestionably dangerous even for sighted people, since not long before I started using that intersection regularly two young children were killed there. I don't recall whether they were actually in a vehicle or not, but even in spite of that I don't recall having much success. I remember everyone I talked to I got the run-around. But even here in Twin Falls, which is a city small enough not to have its own public transit system, there are several streets that I wouldn't feel comfortable trying to cross without such a signal in place, even with a guide dog. Of course to be perfectly honest with the way people seem to drive these days I'd be wary even with an audio signal and a guide dog. But I've talked with people who are opposed to these things. THeir reasoning is that they don't want us to become dependent on them. THis does make some sense but...
It does not make sense.
People that say that are utterly, totally, and stupefyingly ridiculous.
1. We don't remove the yellow line to keep motorists from becoming dependent upon it. After all motorists are supposed to be watching a great number of things at the same time, can't have them depending on the yellow line.
b. When you're listening at a street corner you are listening to a huge number of factors. You're not 'dependent' upon parallel traffic, as important as that is, but you do use it. You listen to turning vehicles, the sounds of engines as they gear up or gear down, the sound of other pedestrians, bicyclists, and maybe a distant siren approaching you which tells you the traffic is about to be different, an emergency vehicle's coming through. So even if parallel trafic says 'Go' but there's a siren approaching and it's close to you, you don't go.
Man oh man, the number of inputs / amount of data you're acquiring is unimaginable. An adaptive signal control, which is what they call it, would never become a sole factor because nothing is.
Anyone who has ever 'travelled' aka gone anywhere by themselves wouldn't say said signals make you dependent. They aren't a poppy field, they don't intoxicate, you'll be fine.
Bicyclists have bike lanes and no numbnuts is saying bike lanes make bicyclists dependent, or "What will they do when the bike lane isn't there?" or "What if a car pulls into the bike lane? Then what will they do?" No, any additions that are available to motorist, bicyclist, blind pedestrian, elderly person on railway station platforms, are enfolded into an already-existing system of travel.
That propaganda sounds like rag leaflet material. Rag mags are good for cold winter mornings when I need to get the fire started before the daughter gets up for school, but not much else. Oh, yeah, they might be good at helping mop up the oilspill ...
Oh I agree with you. But that's seriously what people have said, mostly O&M instructors I notice. THen again I did have an O&M instructor tell me once, me, a totally blind individual, that I didn't need a cane because the cane accounts for only ten percent of the feedback you get while travelling. I need hardly point out that the first time he had me cross a street caneless so I could rely only on my ears, thankfully it wasn't even remotely busy but still, I nearly had a heart attack. It's also interesting to note that I've only heard this philosophy of the almost totally unnecessary cane from that one instructor. But he felt the same way about the audio walk signals. I'm surprised he didn't try to get me to not use them even on streets that had them.
Um, was he completely brainless? Seems that way... How on Earth could someone like that even be hired as a mobility instructor! Life never ceases to amaze me.
for god's sake, how could that O and M instructor expect a blind person to not use a cane? rediculours state of affiars that.
Oh I agree. About the only thing he said to me that actually made sense was that I needed and still do need to work a little on my alignment when crossing streets. But the rest was basically what the hell are you talking about?
Nope! I deal with it and live. I manage with what I have. I often get sighted assistance. I get along great with sited folks or I go around. I live in a huge city, so it's not difficult.
Problem is not everybody has good repor with sighted folks, and it's not always through any fault of their own. So that's not an option for everybody.
How could you not have a "good rapport" wigth sighted people? Of course, if someone is untrustworthy, rude or just plain hesitant to help, that's a different story. But most people are nice enough to give the help when asked.
I didn't say it was common but I imagine it does happen from time to time.